Like A Bos — Beyond The Sale

Stronger Together: Culture-Driven Leadership in Niagara

• Bosley Real Estate LTD., Brokerage • Season 1 • Episode 4

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This episode explores how a purpose-driven culture, supportive atmosphere, and collaborative leadership can create an environment where agents feel empowered to grow and succeed. Through Patrick Burke’s perspective, listeners will gain practical insights into cultivating an office culture where trust, alignment, and support fuel success through change—demonstrating how the right environment can elevate both individual performance and overall team impact.

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Christan:

What does it take to build an incredible team in the multifaceted Niagara region? Here with us today is managing broker Mr. Patrick Burke to share his strategies on purpose-driven leadership, recruiting, and of course, an amazing team culture. For nearly a century, Bosley has been helping to shape the landscape of Canadian Real Estate. This podcast is an extension of that legacy, our way of staying connected to what matters most to you. Join us as we sit down with leading voices from across the industry and beyond to explore the ideas, trends, and stories that move real estate forward. Whether you're an agent, investor, homeowner, or just curious about the market, there's something here for you. Hey everyone, and welcome to Like a Bos, the podcast where we interview incredible movers and shakers who are shaping our real estate industry and beyond. I am Kristen Bosley, president and broker of record of Bosley Real Estate. Hi, Patrick. Thank you for joining us today.

Patrick:

I'm a mover and/or a shaker. Hi, thanks for having me.

Christan:

You are? Yeah. You know it.

Patrick:

Yeah.

Christan:

Come on. Tell us what makes you a mover and a shaker.

Patrick:

Oof. I think the way I'm wired is I tend to not um sit still for very long, to my own detriment. Because you know this industry can be eight days a week, 28 days, hours a day if you want it to be. So I think I've always just had, and my wife always says to me, like, sometimes you have to like that's good what what's happening. There's a and you're always looking for that that next thing, which is great and can propel you forward and grow and all that other stuff. But it can also become an endless pit that you're going after, which and it takes time in the business, I think, to recognize it and find those patterns before you discover, hey, maybe I don't need to be doing this at 10 30 at night and I can close the laptop. So as far as mover and shaker, I think it's more I think it's it's it's just having that vision of of always having that north star of what you're working towards, um, which evolves over time, but it's it's uh it's you know, 20, whatever, 22 years, 23 years in the business, I s you find new ways to keep going and uh and and again to move you and shake you uh forward.

Christan:

I mean I have to be honest, I actually think that this is one of the benefits of how we met, right? Is you've been in the business for 20 plus years, you've been an incredibly successful sales uh sales member, and I mean maybe it was the possibility of something a little bit more that brought us together.

Patrick:

Yeah, it's a it's a complicated uh process moving from a brokerage to another on all sides of the coin. Um but yeah, I I I just envisioned something um different for myself. And and then when I saw what you guys were doing, and and uh of course I knew a few of the agents that were in the Niagara Lake office, and um I liked the the largeness of of the of the organization, brokerage, the team, the the everything, but also the the smallness of it at the same time. And that's a that's a secret sauce that I think is hard to find where you can grow and become bigger, um, but also not lose the identity of why you got there in the first place, which is in our industry and in our area, um, there's lots of great brokerages, but it's like restaurants, and I'm a really picky eater, as you know. You get, you know, everybody's gonna have their own favorite restaurant on on the on the main drag. And so for me, it was there were certain things that um that I was looking for that that uh led me to sitting in this chair today.

Christan:

Okay. Well, I have to tell you, I feel pretty privileged to have you here today and to have you on our team. So um, you know, one of the things that I've always been curious about is uh for those who don't know you, I know you have a really amazing music background. How did music bring you to real estate?

Patrick:

I I think about this uh in uh increasingly in the last number of years um with regards to the arts and how in integral it is to what I do and what the you know how I'm wired. So for the for those of you where are all the cameras? Um for those of you listening who have kids and and in their they're in the arts, I think and sports is great too, but there's something about the arts that that that gets you into into a situation that is so transferable when you go on in life doing whatever you're doing afterwards. So um I'm not sure the exact question you asked, but I'll tell you the very quick story is is I came up playing piano, went to Laurier University for piano. So a quick example of that is on Tuesdays, the piano um department would have recitals for the piano department, so fully in front of your peers. And so you're playing piano on a big, you know, $200,000 concert grand, and and your peers are out in the in the audience of the concert hall and the and the professors as well, and you're playing. And it's not a concert, but it is, but you screw up and then you say, Oh crap, I I played that wrong note or I forgot where I am or whatever, and then you keep going and you realize that everything's okay. And there's a real there's a real there's a line drawn betwe between, I think, people that are in the arts and their ability to lead or stand up in front of people or speak to things, or not be afraid to screw up. And perform. And perform, yeah.

Christan:

Because every day as a realtor, there's a certain extent of performance. Yeah.

Patrick:

I always talk like when we talk to agents, I say it's it's you know, out of a hundred agents, how many of them really like to do role-playing? Maybe ten? Maybe. Or one. Yeah. Yeah. And and so then, okay, then if you're not comfortable doing that, then your performance in this recital hall is at the the dining room table of the cellar, and you're trying it for the first time. So I don't know. So so when I came up through that, um I graduated university, graduated teachers college, and did what any graduate would do is I went on cruise ships and played piano in the in the main band, and I was musical director for five years, um, where I learned a whole other facet of the arts is dealing with people. Um so on there there was a 10-piece band and another 16 musicians scattered throughout the ship, you know, a string trio, a reggae band, a piano bar, a mid-lounge band, a rock and roll band. And so I, in some form, was dealing with with the day-to-day of of them. And it was a really it was a master class in in humans because you had a you had a string trio from Poland and a reggae band from St. Lucia and a cover band from the Philippines and uh and a whatever band from Texas. And so you're dealing with with so many varied personalities and everything. And so it's totally transferable to real estate because real estate tends to have this huge uh breadth, I think is the word, of people. And so it was uh so the arts, long story long, um I learned an enormous amount from it, and it's totally day-to-day um something that helps me.

Christan:

It's incredible how you gained all the leadership skill sets from your experience in music.

Patrick:

Totally accidentally, too. Like never like that was what was cool about it was I was not a leader. Right. I I was a kid just trying to figure out what to do next. And then you get put into these situations, and the thing, the thing that puts you in the situation is the thing that I think guides you on your curve as far as learning and growth. Sorry to interrupt.

Christan:

And so I think it's been it's fair to say that you've been a leader with your clients and with your sales team for you know the 20 plus years, but then you know, last year you made the transition into an actual full brokerage management position. And so how have you found that transition from your sales to your, you know, now leading a group of sales agents? A little bit different than clients, right? So, you know, what kind of things do you find were transferable in those skill sets to where you are today?

Patrick:

Yeah, I I think the one thing that agents can take comfort in is for the most part the struggles that one is having, another is. Like it's there's there's very there's a commonality in in the process because in general, even the most seasoned seller is experiencing some form of stress. And so there's a repetitiveness to the situations that we encounter. You still have to approach them with empathy and humanity and uniqueness every time, but um but it it's seeing other people go through something that I already had. Like if I were to go back to that piano stage back at Laurier, I would tap on the shoulder of the kid who forgot where he was in his Bach Prelude and say it doesn't matter. Right. So there's there's there's uh when I meet with a new agent, I going a little deeper, I go back to when my kids were were two and three and four years old, and I probably spent time doing stuff that I thought I was supposed to do because those other people were doing it. And so having the ability to go to them and say, look, you don't have to do, you know, you got a one-year-old, take a Sunday off, right? Go to that family picnic kind of thing, and and and replace that work time, that face-to-face time, that whatever you want to call it time, reallocate it to another time so you can be a present. Because I don't know, but you like in in in Niagara, well, in our industry, there's plenty of really successful agents who are only successful at agenting, and their other stuff is the stuff that falls by the waist.

Christan:

100%. And I think that's what always attracted me to want to work with you is there's a there's a well-roundedness to your experience, your business, your engagement with the public and with agents that you know very few agents have. To your point about agents agenting, it's like there's they're either exceptional agents or there's no balance. It's very rare to find somebody who has very clear boundaries and can run an incredibly successful business while maintaining those boundaries. And I see that in you. And perhaps that came from your performance background. I would say the other people and the other background I tend to find that with is competitive sports, right? Same sort of thing, that ability to continue persisting and and leading all the way through. So I mean, I've always found that to be quite commendable.

Patrick:

Yeah, my my wife would would I I'm better now, um, but again, it was a learning curve, right? It was it was going through those times of of uh the ebbs and flows of of everything and hitting burnout and relaxing and that. And I still struggle like let's be real, I it's still a thing today. It's a never ending, it's a it's an animal that's always there. You have to sort of tame and figure out. But um, but yeah, when you see when you see other people, like you know, there's a few pieces I I would share with newer agents. For one, is is not internalizing the results of the decision of somebody else. We will beat ourselves up because of something that it wasn't our house to sell or to buy. Um so all we can do is put our clients in the best position to make the best possible, most informed decision, but ultimately they make the decision. And if and if whatever it is falls apart or goes sideways or whatever, um there that there's not a direct line between that and your abilities or your skill or or your quality of an agent. And and so we tend to really uh like again the go okay, go back to sports, the the the soccer player who misses the empty net, right? And and um or um or uh there was something that just happened in the PGA thing last week and it was it, it was uh I can't remember what it is, but it was one of those situations where it would just it would just churn you, right? And and just drive you nuts.

Christan:

Well, in fairness, you don't have the strongest mental game when it comes to golf. So no.

Patrick:

And and uh that's a that's becoming a that that's my new mission right now is like why can I why can I apply a certain level thank you, it's so true. Why can I apply a certain level of like mental agility or whatever to some things and then I go out in the golf course and I I I'm a gong show. So that's my that's one of my other missions. Anyway, thank you.

Christan:

Okay, listen, but I think I think we're supposed to, I think we're supposed to talk about real estate. So why don't we shift a little bit to uh to market dynamics? I mean I think it is fair to say that your region is very multifaceted, it's completely different than the GTA. Um the expectations of sellers and consumers are very different, and and the pace at which the market moves is quite different. So can you tell me, you know, when it comes to your market area, uh team building and client service, like what does that look like for you as a branch manager? How do you encourage that with your team?

Patrick:

Um Yeah, so the the the work with clients, um, yeah, so we're at the end of the highway, basically. So it's an interesting place because you know, we're not I always wonder what would Niagara look like if Buffalo was Canada, right? As far as the market conditions and that. Um so it's an interesting place in that uh we really didn't have out-of-town agents in our marketplace until about 2015 or so. Lucky you. Yeah. And and uh there was much disgruntlement, I'm not sure if that's a word, when that started to change amongst some people in our marketplace. They wanted to, you know, it's our sandbox kind of a thing. But it was very clear that that the even back then that everything had changed. Um so then it became more of a changing our lit our sort of our approach to we're not working with with clients who are buying here in Niagara and selling over there in Niagara and in this little again, sandbox. It's completely different landscape. So then it was conversations around, you know, how do you reach these different marketplaces? And how do you engage perhaps digital media to reach these different marketplaces? And then how do you service those people? So all of a sudden, you know, you have somebody coming down from Woodbridge or or Ajax or wherever, um, how are you working with them? Because before that, we we we didn't have a lot of out-of-town buyers coming down. Um so working with our team, um, well, back then I I was just you know, I was working with other agents, but it was a change in um in our sort of day-to-day um because Niagara was already dynamic. You know, you have old town Niagara and the Lake, you have two coasts, South Coast and then and then St. Catharines on and Lincoln and all that on Lake Ontario. You have farmland and rural, um, you have the tourist area of Niagara Falls, um, there's Malte Res and huge growth down in in central Niagara, like central of the region. So there's a wide, wide range. And then all of a sudden you throw in people coming in from out of town. It was it was it was uh the last 10 years have been well, if you look at any data, we haven't talked about data, by the way, yet.

Christan:

We're probably not gonna talk about data.

Patrick:

If you look at any any numbers from like the last 10 years, it's it was wildly volatile. So that yeah, it totally changed how we'd have to or we would engage with with people.

Christan:

Aaron Powell Well, it changes how you engage with your consumer, but it also changes how you expect your leadership team as an agent to engage with you as well, right? So I think over that last 10 year span, you've had the benefit of you know being an agent with a leadership team at your previous brokerage to, well, now I am the leadership team. And so when we talk about you know the unique aspects of your market and how it impacts our agents, you know, from your perspective, having had both sides, what are the things that you know you expect and need from leadership and how are you delivering those those results to your agents right now?

Patrick:

Um Yeah, we we need we need to have um and we increasingly do um a more diverse, varied voice of how we're marketing for one. Um so yes, we went from what are you putting in the newspaper this week to you know any number of things, whether it's whether it's it's um targeted digital media or the some of the other tools that were coming out here at the brokerage, the um the digital tools for any number of things that you're doing that now have analytics on the back so you can see what's working, what's not. It's so from the brokerage level to us, it's hey guys, here's all these going back to the golf club thing, here's all the clubs in the bag. You don't have to use all of them, but they're there for you to use and don't be afraid to try this one and this one kind of a thing, right? And then and then our role down in Niagara is to make sure that our team knows that they're part of this larger group, which they do, but it's it's always like it's a really it's a really nuanced thing being in Niagara versus Toronto. And I was thinking about it today when I heard you guys have um thirty, thirty-two thousand active listings, I think was the number. To some extent, Niagara to Toronto, you guys tend to have like ten times what we have as far as sales or active listings, kind of like the states does to Canada, you know. And so there's this there's this dynamic between us, Niagara being this peninsula and this big city. But I think the cool thing is is our group recognizes like there's huge benefit to that, right? To have that connection, to have the infrastructure that's here to support them in what we're doing, and to continue to there's you know, there's always new stuff that's getting introduced, which is great. Because as an agent, again, that's all you want is to be able to go out and do the important stuff and then have a a team in the background that that says, hey, here's another club for your bag kind of thing. Right. Which is which is cool. And but yeah, getting people to adopt and or adopt and adapt to these new tools is is then the next piece of it, right?

Christan:

Yeah, the adoption rate is always hard, right? Like at most in anything that you offer from a brokerage, you can expect 30% adoption. Uh, I think, you know, in my experience, where I see you shine really is in in the communication to your team and the the collaboration and mentorship and team building that you provide your team around the service offerings of the brokerage. And to me, I think, you know, when I witness that objectively on the on the sidelines, you can see people actively start thinking about what they're what they're going to employ in their business, how they're going to use it to their benefit. And then, and then they have an added element where, you know, you have an exceptional experience in sales as well. So for them to be able to come and say, you know, do you see it working this way? What are the positives, negatives? How can you, how can you watch that play out? So it's interesting how you use those golf clubs, as you say, to to really enhance the culture and collaboration within your team. So uh I would say one of the things that we're actively working on right now is um growing the team. And that to me, uh as the leader of the company is slightly challenging because we really work hard to have an attraction method rather than a, you know, go out and chase the agent method. And we're quite specific, as you know, about who we bring in. So, you know, as I'm interviewing these agents who have shown an interest in joining our team, it's really become quite apparent to me how different our team is in your current market, um, how specialized, how um, you know, very strategic they are in their approach. And so, how did you come to have this team and how do you continue to foster that culture? And and how do you anticipate you're going to incorporate people in and get them on board with that?

Patrick:

Yeah, the there's one thing I know and I've always known it, is as much as there's people that love to get awards and stand up with their golden eagle of platinum soaring with the clouds award, which is great. I shouldn't say that. That's rude. That's rude. But I, you know, and I think that's that's fine. If and it but it all comes down to like where does the validation work that that puts the fuel in your tank come from? And for me, all I've ever wanted to do is be a part of an organization where everybody is operating at at the level that they can, where where like Jim and I have always said like at our previous place, I said, if we're 10th, but we have our best year ever, I'm so much happier than if I was first and it was okay. Right. So uh for us, it's it's building that that thing with when when we when we have agents come in. So it's part of building with other, you know, having more of a team or growing the team, I should say. Um I want that mindset where the reason you're at a place isn't because of a trophy you get, it's because of the opportunity to build along with colleagues. That's the thing that floats your boat. And if you go into our office, um, I was in the St. Catharines office. Sorry, I usually talk with my hands and I'm trying not to, and I can't keep my hands still there, right there. And put that. Um I was in the St. Catharine's office at at like 9:30, quarter to 10 on Monday morning, and there were 10 agents out of 14 in there. Like, and it was like I I said to Jimmy, I said, I have to close the door, I can't get any work. Because it was just like, hey, what about this? And what about this? There was all this buzz going on. But that's that's I think that's really special, and I know it is because I know the other brokerages, not that they're it they're not good. Every going back to the restaurant on Main Street, they all have their own flavor, their own offerings, their own, their own this, and everybody has their own thing that appeals to them. But for me, and I know what works for many other agents because I've heard from them that say uh that that they wish or or they they they get they go out for lunch with a group of people to get that camaraderie thing. I was like, but wouldn't it be cool if that was your office every day?

Christan:

Yeah.

Patrick:

Right? Because then you hear, like, hey, I'm listing this place at 123 Main Street. Um what do you think about this? And then somebody else down the hall says, Oh, when are you putting it up for sale? Or hey, we listed that we sold the one two blocks over, we found out this, like all that kind of stuff that that that uh people in the same ecosystem, you're guaranteed. I and I would argue that forever, you're guaranteed to grow your business just by osmosis that way, right?

Christan:

Well, 100%, because this can be an incredibly lonely business, right? And I think that's part of the culture that you have in your Niagara region is that sense of belonging, the collaboration, the the participation, and and the active commitment from your agents to maintain that. Because, you know, we can we see the same thing in Toronto here is you know, when I look at the top 10 of the company, eight, if not nine of them work from the office every day. Right. And so funny, eh? And and it's interesting to see, you know, we have the EXP models and all of the other different models that are are very beneficial in their own right for a variety of different reasons. But I think what really separates us and what you have hugely going on in your region is that desire to want to participate, is that desire to want to get off their kitchen table and come in and actually learn, actively participate. And not only are more deals done that way, and you can see that happening in your own region, but you know, you face rejection every day if you're doing this job properly, right? As a really good agent, if you're not facing some form of rejection every day, you're not working hard enough, right? So that ability to come in and be with people is really, really critical. So I think you do that really well.

Patrick:

Yeah, the the um we had a a mastermind round table at Niagara Lake office last week, and it was because you know, I don't want to, I don't know if this is evergreen or not, this episode, but at the current time, the market is very challenging. And and so with that, going back to the people doing doing it on their own, we had 12, 14 people having a coffee, sitting in a circle. It wasn't me telling them about months of inventory or whatever. It was, hey, what's going on? We had this experience, and and sharing sort of challenges and then finding you know solutions, or there's just comfort in knowing that somebody else is struggling with that thing, is like, yeah, that's but what are you doing about it, kind of thing, right?

Christan:

And uh it's kind of like group therapy a little bit. 100% is. That's exactly what it works. It absolutely keeps people focused and it allows them to be persistent moving forward.

Patrick:

And then get going. And then and then say, you know what, good idea. I'm gonna I'm gonna go and have that conversation with them, or I'm gonna phrase it this way, or I'm gonna I'm gonna bring them that tool or whatever. And um I get like, yeah, it's it's 100% group therapy. And uh as I I I have a therapist dude I go and see once in a while, and I think everybody should, because uh like an uh if you're not talking to somebody about it, you're internalizing it. Um there's there's a you know, there's difficult the the path to resolving that that sort of issue or or that that uh whatever word you want to use is is is much longer and more difficult when you do it on your own.

Christan:

Yeah. And so that leads perfectly into my next question because I think you know the difference between you know being an agent and going in and having these conversations with your colleagues and being able to have some really good constructive feedback and a listening ear is really positive. But when you're on the leadership side of it, your job is not necessarily to participate in that conversation, right? Your job is to make sure that the information that's being shared is accurate, that it's beneficial. Of course, we have to monitor competition experiences and we have to be the supportive ear at all times. And so that can be really challenging as a leader at times because every facet of somebody's life impacts how they move through this business. So, from a leadership perspective, for you, how are you keeping yourself positive? How are you maintaining a really, you know, strong mindset? What do you do for yourself to make sure that you're showing up for everybody all day long?

Patrick:

Yeah, so that's a that's a journey that I continue to be on because I can like I'm so truly invested in wanting to see everybody do great that I will sometimes put too much mental bandwidth into it. So for me, I'll go home in the evening and put on music and just have a float and just you know, it's hard to have your phone with you when you're in when you're in water. Um or um, yes, I I do golf on occasion. My sometimes my favorite is to go out with one other person at like 6 30 in the evening and play nine holes and and just have a stroll. Um I have a bunch of buddies from years past that will go for breakfast once a month. Um and then other than that, it's just my family. My wife's exceptionally good at at humaning and uh figuring out you know where stuff's coming from or lending any air or giving. She's been, you know, anybody that's been in real estate, um, she's been as much, you know, on the journey on this bus with me from day one too. Um and then you you just find stuff that that you've that puts more wind in your sales, right? Like when you know somebody's been working on a deal and they've you know they're newer in the business, and you just help steer them a little bit through it and then they get the deal. There's just something about that where you're just so thrilled for them, and it and it it just reinvigorates and keeps you going. And and um it's just it's recognizing in our own individual business and then in my role and then in a brokerage that it's not always gonna be roses. So something goes up falls apart. Why did it? There's probably something to learn and take from that's actually a positive in the end, um, and to go forward. So for me, it's yes, there's challenge stuff, there's also lots of great stuff, but it's all part of the part of the process.

Christan:

But is it fair to say that you have to be actually conscious in that moment to recognize the elements of that experience that are bringing you joy so you can play more into that?

Patrick:

Yeah, and and like anything, I'm some days I'm better at being aware of it and recognizing and and you know, high-fiving that moment. Um and there's other times where you get wounded, you get you get caught up in it. And yeah, that's when, like you were saying earlier, just taking five minutes, taking a breath. Like I'll go out, I'll go out in our back parking lot at the office and sit down in a chair and just get out for five minutes and come back in. It just sort of lets your brain reset a little bit.

Christan:

Yeah, it's a conscious choice to be present, right? And so I do a lot of one-to-one work, as as you know, with my leadership team and also with many of our agents. And, you know, one of the things that has become very apparent to me in my discussions is that people are really struggling to find moments of joy, you know, and I think it really comes down to are you consciously present in that moment? Are you finding the things that give you energy and then leaning more into that? And so I think what I've always admired about you is that you have a very clear understanding of, you know, how do I unwind? How do I reduce my anxiety levels? How do I talk myself off the edge so that I can show up in front of my people and help them do the same? So um, it's really one of your strengths, in my opinion.

Patrick:

Yeah, it's it's and I've I've often talked to sellers about it that I that I know really well. People don't know f how much good agents will internalize and think about where they're at in their life. This is beyond not a nine to five. Like when you have a when you have somebody in a tight spot or or a or a deal or something like that, you go to bed thinking about it, and within minutes of waking up, it's it's started again. And um, and so that's another thing going back to starting out in this business is you have to be able to you can't detach. Like I admire people that are in very challenging jobs that can go, you know, like a pediatric surgeon, that sort of thing, that can go home and have that. ability to still to be present and all those other things. And I think we sometimes get so wound up in our in our greatness as agents and and there that's a whole other podcast for another day. The the the public um the public, you know, look look what I did stuff, which is fine. Again, external validation and whatever. And there's a lot of agent-to-agent support on that stuff, which is great too. But yeah, that that that ability to uh to manage that stuff mentally and everything else. I don't know I that's a bit of a tangent but that that weaves its way through the whole this whole industry from the whole industry leadership all the things that you need to to prepare for to have those dialogues with your agents right so um I'm gonna do a couple of quickfire questions because you know why not why not okay so here we go share a time when you had a tough leadership decision and what did you learn from it you know what um not so much of a decision it was it was at the beginning when I was first in this role standing up in front of people and it was the decision to not listen to my imposter syndrome that I have no business standing in front of these people telling them things because they know it already as opposed to any one of those people could be standing in my shoes sharing something, right? So why can't I do it? So the decision as far as a leadership decision, I guess it's sort of a twist on it, but it was muting that voice and saying you have a right to stand in front of people and even now I'm like you but you have a right to stand in front of people and share your experiences or your advice or your suggestions or guide the narrat the discussion, whatever it is.

Christan:

So that's funny that you mention imposter syndrome because it's a it's a word that I've heard, you know, this saying that I've heard probably more than 20 times in the last two weeks about people having imposter syndrome in front of their clients, in front of their you know negotiating all of the things because I think shifting markets make people really question what it is they're doing. So it's funny that you mentioned that I don't know if you noticed today we had an all-company meeting I started the meeting with a song called Know Your Worth.

Patrick:

Yeah it's just a little little segment of you know everybody needs to understand that even doing this like and I think sometimes it's why people maybe they don't they want I want to start doing Instagram videos or whatever. They don't do it because of that voice that tells them that they're not smart enough. They don't talk whatever and uh and so yeah that that's and it's still a journey but I I made I've I've the last year has been very productive on on managing that little guy. Well he's always there. Well done.

Christan:

Okay. Looking ahead what's the vision for your team?

Patrick:

To grow smartly and introduce people to our to our world down there and and bring them into the office and and grow and add add great agents who are on the bus that we're on and want to be a part of something where there's open collaboration and and uh and connectivity and symbiosis and and just forward motion. That that's I'm so excited about that and that's that's uh the balance of this year in 2026 is now we can triple down and make that happen.

Christan:

Yeah I love that answer although admittedly I do immediately come back to the vision of a party bus.

Patrick:

Yeah if you if you like a party bus you're gonna want to hang out in Niagara okay who or what inspires you to continue leading with purpose my kids love that they um they're awesome and um I yeah that like I'm in that stage of my life right now that they're they're I'm about to be an empty nester. I don't know how that happened um and my mission one right now is to set them up and have them get go off and do whatever they do fully supported and so like literally right now all I'm focusing on is those two guys.

Christan:

Okay.

Patrick:

And my wife's in there somewhere in the mix that's nice lucky Alice. Yeah sorry Alice what's one lesson you've learned in business that you wish you had learned earlier in your career um I would go back to the early days the open house thing I wouldn't have done 78 open houses a year when my kids were in the backyard. Slow down don't be don't actually a big one would was when social media and all that stuff came out was uh become indifferent to what other people are doing. Not in not in a in a negative way but don't use it as a as a as a check and balance on how I'm doing.

Christan:

Right.

Patrick:

It's huge. No comparisons.

Christan:

I don't care focus on what you're good at and do it well.

Patrick:

You did you just sold 12 million dollars of houses last month good for you. Yeah. And whereas before there's always that piece of you that's like man why didn't I get to do that? So yeah just just getting rid of that. Who cares? Okay. With with respect who cares?

Christan:

Um I know that you like to read books so I can ask you this question. What book is on your current reading list?

Patrick:

I'm actually reading the uh the exactly what to say that's in the the book club and uh I think it's really it's it's an interesting sociological psychological um and it's in it all it is is is questions, why they matter, the background to them and then how to employ them. The first two parts of that is what I'm most interested in is just the questions in general and uh in it in as a way to engage conversation as opposed to here's what I know and here's what you should know. And I t I tended to go to the the the the second one um which isn't a great way to conversate with people. So I'm I'm quite into that. So I'm I'm using that as a I'm writing it down and going back and listening to the audio thing because I'm trying to actually ingrain it in my brain.

Christan:

My favorite part of that book is the comment of uh the person who asks the questions controls the conversation. That's why I'm here.

Patrick:

And the cool thing with that too is it's not in a salesy way it's on the surface it could be like well you're trying to get somebody to some no it's our job is to try is to in an ethical and and responsible way shine a light on something that somebody needs to be aware of in a way that they'll be aware of it. And you know the agent or or whoever that sits down and says this is what you need to know and this is what you need to do with it that doesn't get you there because the person's being forced into a corner. So the whole flipping that upside down and saying let's talk let's talk through questions and shine a light on what life might look like if is such a great I don't know for anything.

Christan:

I personally feel like coming from a place of curiosity is just how imagine how different the world would be if we all just came from a place of curiosity, right? The the level of understanding that you would have instead of making automatic assumptions and then creating emotions around these assumptions whereas you know any sort of conversation that doesn't sit well any sort of experience that you just want to know more about like it's amazing you know personally I have a real hard time remembering people's names but I can tell you their entire life story. Right. Right?

Patrick:

Yeah that would be a totally different world if that was the world would be a completely different place.

Christan:

Okay last question.

Patrick:

Yeah.

Christan:

If you were to do a TED talk what would your topic be?

Patrick:

Uh 100% the role of the arts in making humans better. Love that yeah will you put that together for us one day I would be a disaster before a TED talk. Talk about imposter syndrome it would come back so hard. Uh but yeah I fully I I advocate for that every in fact we there was a a meeting at my son's school around the arts and there was all kinds of parents are advocating for something that I disagreed with and I was the only person speaking out against it and I said to my wife I was like you better go out and start the car so we can get out of here. But they wanted to introduce auditions to put a firewall up for not all so not all kids could get into the program. I thought that's not what the arts is supposed to do. It's arts is supposed to expose kids to this new thing and then they graduate they're not going to go off and be an opera singer or whatever but they're gonna go off and they're gonna be able to give a presentation or speak to their colleagues or do this other stuff that that they wouldn't otherwise be able to do had they not been on the stage in the school production or whatever. So yeah that that that's an auto answer that one.

Christan:

I love that topic that's great. Okay. Well listen Patrick thank you so much for being with us today and sharing your insights very valuable as always it's been such a pleasure and until next time I'm Kristen Bosley thanks so much for listening and bye for now. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's episode be sure to subscribe leave a review and share it with someone who might find it valuable. We've got more conversations coming your way with incredible guests across design, finance, wellness tech, and more all through the lens of real estate. A special thank you to our set design sponsors stage right

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Christan Bosley

Host
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Patrick Burke

Guest