Like A Bos — Beyond The Sale

Foundation and Futures: Lessons from the Past, Insight for Today

• Bosley Real Estate LTD., Brokerage • Season 1 • Episode 5

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Celebrate the legacy and leadership behind a fourth-generation brokerage through a candid conversation with Tom and Ann Bosley, former President and VP, as industry shapers.

Resonates with both consumers and agents.

· Offer valuable insight into how the real estate industry has evolved, the core values that have endured across generations, and what it takes to earn consumer trust through deep roots and lasting integrity.

· It's a meaningful listen for today’s agents seeking mentorship, inspiration, and a deeper understanding of how to build and sustain a legacy in real estate.

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Christan:

This podcast is in loving memory of Ann Bosley. Important to note that the video was filmed prior to Ann's passing. We share it now to honor her extraordinary life, her leadership, and her immeasurable contributions to the real estate industry. For more than four decades, Ann represented the very best of what our profession stands for: integrity, compassion, and an unwavering commitment to the people and communities she served. Her spirit will forever remain part of Bosley Real Estate and the industry she helped shape. Enjoy. Today, we are joined by Tom and Ann Bosley, affectionately known as my mom and dad, to share the stories, values, and lessons that shaped Bosley and the real estate industry as a whole. From building a culture of integrity to navigating generational change, this candid conversation reveals how true success is built over decades, not just deals. For nearly a century, Bosley has been helping to shape the landscape of Canadian real estate. This podcast is an extension of that legacy, our way of staying connected to what matters most to you. Join us as we sit down with leading voices from across the industry and beyond to explore the ideas, trends, and stories that move real estate forward. Whether you're an agent, investor, homeowner, or just curious about the market, there's something here for you. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Like a Boz, the podcast where we bring you real conversations with people shaping the industry. I am Kristen Bosley, your host, president, and broker of record of Bosley Real Estate. With us today, Tom and Ann Bosley. Welcome.

Ann Bosley:

Thank you. Thank you.

Christan:

Thank you so much for joining us. I know it's not your favorite spot to be.

Ann Bosley:

We didn't have much choice.

Christan:

Well, we all gotta we all gotta pitch in for family sometimes. There you go. So um I've had the distinct pleasure of working with both of you in a variety of different capacities. Um I can't even begin to describe how much I've learned, but I would love to hear from you um how you got into real estate and how you came to be where you are today. So, Ann, why don't you start?

Ann Bosley:

Well, I uh I got my real estate license shortly after I married your father. Because in those days, if something were to happen to your father, I would not have been able to hold on to the firm. Right. Unless I was a broker. So I got my license without ever having an intention of working in real estate, just for a protection for the family. And halfway through taking my license, I got interested in real estate, much to Tom's dismay. And after that, went into sales, much to Tom's dismay. So that's where I started in the business.

Christan:

And I think what Ann's not mentioning is that she was incredibly successful at sales.

Ann Bosley:

I loved it. It was great, but my husband wasn't understanding at all.

Tom Bosley:

That's not true.

Ann Bosley:

So, you know, getting up to leave for offers in the middle of dinner, he didn't get it after 95 years. That's not true.

Tom Bosley:

I was in sales long before you were in sales. Yeah, a long time.

Christan:

Okay, so you went through sales, and then Tom, obviously, this is a generational business, so you're third generation.

Tom Bosley:

Third.

Christan:

Did you always know you were going to go into the business?

Tom Bosley:

No, not really. Um, I started in the business in 1968, which is a long time before you were born. And I started uh I started in our appraisal department, and I spent two and a half years there, which uh while I didn't find it to be the most exciting job, it was probably a very good place to start because it taught me about the value and how to establish the value of real estate. And then I went into our commercial department, and uh I found that difficult because I was quite young, and all of the people that I was talking to and trying to get to do business had children that were a lot older than I was, so they didn't really listen to me. And then I uh uh fortunately we had a general manager who was ahead of our residential department who took me under his wing. And um when I got into residential, that's when I knew I was where I wanted to go. Okay, and obviously I sold and then I went into management, and then I went into general management, and then I ended up owning the company.

Christan:

All right. Um, I think it's safe to say that Bosley Real Estate was just like one chapter of your journeys, which is in my opinion, what makes it so fascinating. Um huge family generational belief in organized real estate and contributing to the industry. So, at what point did you know you wanted to do that and how did you start?

Tom Bosley:

Well, um, if you look at the history of the Toronto Real Estate Board, it's uh it's written that uh my grandmother put up her own money back in the 20s to keep the board alive. Because my grandfather was one of the founding members. So he was a founding member of the Toronto Board, and then uh if if you look at the history of the firm, my grandfather, my uncle, my father, myself, my wife, we've all been president of the Toronto Real Estate Board.

Christan:

Um I just want to put that on record. That's everybody but me.

Tom Bosley:

Your day will come. Um I was president of Ontario, uh, Ann was president of Canadian, I was president of Canadian, as was Uncle Murray. So we've we've been I I was involved in organized real estate from when I was about 25 to um well, I spent 35 years in it.

Christan:

Yeah. I was a little child when Tom was a president of AREA and Korea, so I would say that was early 90s. So I don't necessarily have the privilege of remembering that experience as much as I do with Ann. So when Ann was president of Korea, I was 21. Um, and so for me that meant being her tag along to travel all over the world while she worked, which is kind of ironic now because I'm about to go to Prague for work and Ann's coming as my tag along.

Ann Bosley:

That's perfectly.

Christan:

Um, so that's kind of fun for us. But I recall your experience as one of the first female leaders of Korea being significant. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Ann Bosley:

Korea was terrific. Um, and I went from being president of TREB, which was always a very controversial board in those days. Um, I went from there right to Korea. I didn't do provincial. Uh so when I hit Korea, there were only two of us women on the board, period. Um, so it was a very quick learning curve of how to how to behave on a board when you're going to be noticed no matter what you do. When you're the only woman or only two women on a board of 17 men, no matter what you do, they're gonna notice you. So you better make sure it's the right thing. Right. Anyway, Kriya was terrific, uh terrific people and a tremendous experience. Um, and out of Kriya came the Realtors Care Foundation uh during my tenure. So that was really cool. And um people will remember agency, which is now referred to as representation. Uh, but it's even it's gotten worse. It was slightly complicated when I was there. Now it couldn't be more complicated.

Christan:

Yeah.

Ann Bosley:

So that that's when agency started was my during my tenure at Korea too, on the board.

unknown:

Right.

Tom Bosley:

What was cool about Ann's tenure at Korea was that I had been the Canadian president 10 years before. Okay. So I got to travel with Ann all around the country and make like I knew nothing about real estate. Which was a lot of fun.

Christan:

And uh just, you know, for a little personal tidbit, I distinctly recall a conversation at dinner one night where Ann said, Well, I'm gonna go for Korea. I'm gonna jump right over ARIA. And and Tom said, There's no way you'll do that. And Ann looked at him and said, Watch me. And was president maybe 18 months later. Um not 18 months, you had to join the board first, but I mean it was quite a quite a dramatic departure from from the you can't possibly do that without going to ARIA.

Ann Bosley:

So I was on the board for a couple of years before I was president, all through the executive committee.

Christan:

Yeah.

Tom Bosley:

Well, you talk about being young when uh when we were involved in the early days. I have a photograph of you somewhere when you're about this big.

Christan:

Yeah.

Tom Bosley:

In the tread boardroom.

Christan:

Yes. I find myself in the tread boardroom, tread boardroom every so often these days.

Tom Bosley:

I bet you do.

Christan:

Um, so you know, the point about me being Treb president, not right now, but I don't rule it out.

Ann Bosley:

I do remember Tom giving a speech in the Chateau Frontenac in a humongous ballroom. And you were about, I don't know, maybe you were three. And so I thought, no, we're not gonna sit on the floor. This is too risky. So I took you upstairs to the balcony, big balustrade, thinking we're safe up here. This is gonna be great. And you peered your little face through the balustrade. And as Tom took a breath in his speech, you yelled, Daddy! And the whole boardroom turned around, the whole ballroom, everybody there looked at this little kid in the balustrade. That was very funny.

Christan:

So I have a reputation in organized real estate speaking out for speaking out at all times. Um, but fair to say I think that the Bosley legacy and not just your legacy or mine or that before us. I mean, the Bosley family has been fairly instrumental in founding real estate as we know it today. Although I think it's also fair to say that maybe we might want to contribute a little bit more to what's happening today.

Tom Bosley:

That's true.

Christan:

So looking back, um, you know, I have referenced a couple of times that this is a generational, generational business. For so for those of you that don't know, I am fourth generation. Um, I assume that there were some defining values along the way that ensured consistency and success of the companies. So, what were the defining values and philosophies that shaped how you ran the brokerage, Tom?

Tom Bosley:

Well, I think everybody's fairly aware of my philosophy around here, and that was uh have fun and make money. And if it's not fun, we're gonna change it. This is uh really very much a people business, as you know. And uh if you treat people like family, which we always have, it works.

Christan:

It's the law of giving and receiving.

Tom Bosley:

Giving and receiving and respect.

Christan:

I feel like I reference that uh law on every podcast. It must really stick with me.

Tom Bosley:

Yeah.

Christan:

Um yeah, and I think that our people feel that.

Tom Bosley:

I hope so.

Christan:

I think they feel it.

Tom Bosley:

Yeah.

Christan:

Okay. And what about you, Ann? Do you have any sort of trending values and philosophies that you've noticed over the years?

Ann Bosley:

Um I I think it's a very, it's very personal business. So as much as you want to, when you're in management, keep arm's length, you really can't.

unknown:

Yeah.

Ann Bosley:

Because your your agents are dealing with emotion with their clients. They're holding their emotion in. The only place they can let it out really is with you. They shouldn't be letting it out with their husbands or wives. They'll drive them crazy. So it it's um, I think you you really just have to take it all in and listen and and be part of the solutions.

Christan:

Yeah. So, just for my knowledge, how many boxes of Kleenex did you guys keep in your offices?

Ann Bosley:

That used to drive me nuts. And there was always one or two that always cried, like always.

Christan:

I'm constantly looking for Kleenex in my office all the time. I'm I never I always run out of it.

Tom Bosley:

There's a box in my top drawer.

Christan:

Yeah.

Ann Bosley:

I kept bags of juju instead.

Christan:

Yeah, well, that's fair. I mean, but I think the point is true on both ends, right? It's an incredibly people-oriented business. Sure it is. If you are lacking the emotional intelligence to help our agents figure out what the pain points are and how to overcome them, it becomes very challenging. So I think we have a really great leadership team that has really taken those principles and applied them really nicely.

Tom Bosley:

So a lot of the new agents that you've hired over the last couple of years have all they all have those qualities. You can see it a mile away.

Christan:

Yeah, we're a fun group. Not that I'm biased or anything. So uh, so Tom, what industry shifts have most impacted the profession and your leadership? And this one's an interesting one because I can think of at least two, if not three, major changes in your tenure. What were the pivotal moments?

Tom Bosley:

Well, I think from a public's point of view, you'd have and the agent's point of view, you'd have to look at the MLS system and say that in 1983 we introduced the computer. Before that, we had we started with little tear out sheets of information, and then we went to books of information that were like that. And then uh as I as I recall, we went to the computer, which uh was a big change because a lot of people didn't know what a computer was or how to use it. So interesting that you introduced it. Absolutely. Yeah, it was kind of fun because I remember we had a couple of thousand people sitting in an auditorium and they had me up at the front with a computer, and whatever I did came up behind us. I had a full instruction sheet. Hit this button, hit that button. It worked, and it and it works today. The MLS system is is now uh almost Canadian-wide. And uh I've been pushing, I was pushing for years as Canadian president that we should have one computer system that shows all of the properties in Canada. Why shouldn't the public be able to push a button and look at houses in Vancouver or Calder and the United States?

Christan:

And realtor.ca that's when what Korea did, realtor.ca, right? Which is so different than what we see in the US markets. So I'm really grateful for that.

Tom Bosley:

Yeah.

Christan:

Uh I also distinctly remember sitting at the dinner table talking about how there was a big perception in the business that the internet was going to put every agent out of business.

Tom Bosley:

Exactly. Okay? That's very true.

Christan:

I also distinctly remember, and we still have one because we do have a shelf in our front foyer with a whole bunch of uh technology that should be archived. Um, those really massive cell phones.

Tom Bosley:

$7,000 when they came out.

Christan:

Like it was like a great big box. Yeah, and it was on this curly Q wire attached to your car.

Tom Bosley:

Yeah.

Christan:

Um so I think that was in your tenure too. Lots of technological advances.

Tom Bosley:

It was. And you're right, people said, well, that's the end of the real estate agent. We don't need them, we've got a computer. And and I I distinctly remember saying, you've got it all wrong. It's not the end of the agent. Instead of providing information, we were became interpreters of information, right? Which is far more important.

Christan:

Which is a phrase we still use today, right? Because consumers can get so much information now that it paralyzes them. So it's important to still use that skill set.

Tom Bosley:

Absolutely.

Christan:

But it does bring full circle to my next question, which is you know, Bosley has always been a brand and a company that within our industry has been known for leading the way, for always being ahead of the curve, for innovating on behalf of our agents and our clients. So, how did you balance that tradition of our founding fathers, if you will, the tradition that they brought to the company versus the innovation that you were experiencing in technology through MLS, through the local boards? How did you find balance in that?

Tom Bosley:

Well, I I think it just comes naturally if if you're with your people and working with them and some new technology or something comes out. What we're recognized for is education. And it was very involved in writing our education program, which we still teach every new four times a year or something like that. And you just incorporate all of these changes into that training program so that the new agents that join us are light years ahead of some of the competition.

Ann Bosley:

But I think the other answer to that is we hired people that knew what they were doing from a technology perspective.

Tom Bosley:

Yeah.

Ann Bosley:

You know, it wasn't dependent on us. For God's sake, it would certainly wasn't dependent on us. But um hiring the right people in the right places was a was the answer to that.

Christan:

Yes. Something that I listened very closely to. So one of the things that Ann will probably gloss over, because I've heard her do it many times, is the fact that Ann went into management in the early 90s. Is that accurate? And she ran one of the coolest, most profitable branches in the entire city. Um, and so as someone who doesn't like to toot her own horn, I'm going to say that. And so for that reason, I think anybody in real estate knows that culture of a branch and of a brokerage plays a huge part in that. So it can be really difficult to define that word culture, but definitely very easy to feel. What were your biggest lessons in promoting a really positive culture and in managing people that really helped shape how you brought that branch around?

Ann Bosley:

That was a turning point in the firm, that branch on Bayview. When I started, we had 19 people. When I moved to general manager, we had over 65 in that branch. Uh, and they were all really good agents. And completely wacky. Completely nuts. We still have some. Yeah. Um, but the difference was, I mean, I I it's funny because I I've been thinking about this when you mentioned Bosley U. Bosley U really changed the makeup of our firm because it attracted younger agents who wanted to learn. And in attracting younger agents, well, suddenly we weren't just the Lawrence Park real estate company. Suddenly the younger agents are selling to their buddies in Lesleville and in Ronsey and places that I didn't even know how to get to half the. South of Bluer. South of Bluer. So it was a huge learning experience for me. And they used to tease the daylights out of me. Going into Cabbage Town for lunch, and they used to train me on different areas of the city.

Tom Bosley:

But that they used like your smoking room downstairs.

Ann Bosley:

Yes, we did have a smoking room downstairs, but we won't talk about that.

Christan:

Later turned into a yoga room.

Ann Bosley:

Yeah, it was a yoga. It wasn't. We had yoga classes. It was a very fun environment. A little Looney Tunes, but super fun, and brought our company to the forefront downtown, which it had never been other than in commercial real estate. So that was the beginning of bye-bye, the housewives that did real estate as a hobby, and the start of full-time career young, good, fun agents. That was the beginning of that.

Christan:

Okay. Yeah. I think culture is really important. I know concretely that when I am actively recruiting people to join our team, it is the number one reason people join us. It's the number one reason people leave. Um you can phase yourself out of a really productive, uh, entertaining culture very quickly if you are not productive. What can I say? You know? Um, so obviously through the years, you've had massive contributions, and at some point you made a decision that it was time to step back, which for those of you that don't know, actually doesn't happen in the real estate industry. Um, what was the most surprising part of stepping back for you?

Tom Bosley:

Enjoying it.

Christan:

Oh, you enjoy it. You weren't expecting to.

Tom Bosley:

Well, as you know, I still come into the office quite often because it's uh you were nice enough to give me an office to come to. But it was just time. Um, you know, I've been in the business 58 years, which is a long time. And uh when COVID came in, all the changes that that brought on, uh all the computerization changed. It was just time for me to move on. And and uh your mother liked to go down to South Carolina, so blame it on me. That's what we do.

Christan:

Well, I think from my perspective, one of the most surprising things when I think about your trajectory is that Ann was actually the first to step back. Um, which I wasn't expecting, to be honest, because Ann is like a very motivated driver personality. So when did you know that it was time for you to shift gears?

Ann Bosley:

Well, let's just say I saw the potential.

Christan:

Oh, that was really nice. Thank you. Appreciate that. Although, in fairness, she stepped back long before I was ready to take over.

Ann Bosley:

Well, no, but you were getting ready. Yeah. And there was no way that it was gonna be both of us.

Christan:

Oh, no, no.

Ann Bosley:

It would have no, that would not have happened. Um, so yeah, it I saw it was about time. And then you started in Glen Forest.

Christan:

Yes, management. So I had been teaching Bosley U with you for some time, and then I stayed in sales and was co-managing Glen Forest for a little bit. Yeah. Okay, amazing. Well, as a woman in leadership, Ann. It's so fascinating to me. I actually heard it even today. Um, how many people talk about me being a female leader in our business and how many people appreciate it and are attracted to the leadership style that females bring? I was raised by Ann and have have never spent a moment thinking about the feminist approach, if you will. And actually, I believe that that's quite a privilege that I've had. Um, but I don't believe that you were as privileged. And so, what was that experience like for you? And what type of barriers did you have to push through?

Ann Bosley:

I I never purported to be a feminist. And actually, some people might have even called me a chauvinist. Um so the the main barriers were, I guess, what I referred to before this, that if if there are only two female voices on a board of 17 or 18 people, you better know what you're saying. You better have done your homework. Whereas, and I hate to say this, oh my god, the men are gonna kill me, but if there's 17 men and one of them says something wrong, or one of them hasn't done their homework, it doesn't really matter because someone will just jump in and it won't be as noticeable. Right. So you really had to know what you were doing, you really had to be super prepared. Uh, Treb was was a great training ground for that because when I got on the Treb board, I did it because I was angry with Treb and with what was going on at Trev.

Christan:

Oh, like mother, like daughter.

Ann Bosley:

Yeah. And so somebody said the old expression, you know, if you wanted something done, do it yourself. Get on the board and don't complain, do something about it. So that's what happened. And fortunately, people like Dorothy Mason were a little bit ahead of me. So, you know, it was the ground was broken before I got on the Trev board, but the the board was broken too. But it was that was a a very interesting experience, Trev.

Christan:

I find it interesting that you have not mentioned your experience with the Competition Bureau.

Ann Bosley:

Ah.

Christan:

So I'm gonna ask a question, okay, and this might come into play. I'm not sure. Um, so are there any moments that stand out where you felt your voice really shifted the conversation, whether in the boardroom or in the industry at large?

Ann Bosley:

Oh, there FinTrech. As yeah, as far as I did uh FinTreck training across the country, which as you know is incredibly interesting. Um, but that was uh Bureau enforced. Uh, but at the same time, the competition bureau was after our industry. So uh Alan Tennant in those days was my past president when I was president. And so the two of us literally spent four years together uh training people how to behave properly, what to say, what not to say, what was anti-competitive. Because a lot of realtors, their lingo, their lingo in its own was anti-competitive.

Christan:

Right.

Ann Bosley:

So uh that yes, that's interesting. I'd I'd forgotten about all the bureau training and yeah, and yeah, the light bulb still to bureau, yeah.

Christan:

Um yeah, and I think it's fair to say, correct me if I'm wrong, that you did a lot of that training with the boards too. So for anybody who participates at the board level, you know, the very first thing they start with is a reminder of anti-competitive discussions and points and all that kind of stuff. So um it's really nice for me to sit in those environments and think about how my parents have contributed to that dialogue. So, Tom.

Tom Bosley:

Yes.

Christan:

Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Tom Bosley:

I was just gonna say we can go back to one of the big changes in the industry, it's the uh formation of the real estate council of Ontario.

Christan:

Oh, yeah. Is is now the time to talk about that.

Tom Bosley:

If you want.

Christan:

Yes, it's uh it's Real Estate Council of Ontario, also short form for RICO.

Tom Bosley:

Correct. Uh, which is the governing body of the real estate industry brought into uh effect by the by the government. Um I want to say 1988, I think. Because I was chair in 2000. Um and the government is heavily involved in the real estate council again due to circumstances, which I'm sure some of your people have read about or know about. And the the government is gonna have to come in and and clean it up because uh when we formed the real estate council of Ontario, we had we had uh twelve directors. Uh we had a president, we had a registrar, both with massive real estate experience. All of the people on the board were individuals that owned their own companies and uh understood the ins and outs of the real estate business. Last year, the government came along and said, Well, we don't need to have all those real realtors on the board. There's still a board of 12, and there's only three real estate people on it. And uh a number of the people that are there don't really understand the business.

Christan:

And a previous registrar who had been there for a very long time that had never traded in real estate.

Ann Bosley:

He was in the funeral business.

Christan:

It had it really has presented many challenges and regulations and consumer transparency. The flip side to that is they are trying to increase consumer transparency. They just released the Trusted and Real Estate Services Act.

Tom Bosley:

Yeah.

Christan:

There are things that we are moving forward in a very positive way on. Uh, but the regulation needs a lot of oversight.

Tom Bosley:

One of the big events of Rico and one of the best.

Ann Bosley:

things we did was the insurance policies which which protect the uh the public's money uh the deposits deposits yeah well and thank god we had that last week hey exactly yeah so but i before you before you get off that don't worry i'm not going to go on anti-competitive commentary yes um when tom when tom was initially on the recal board they brought through uh reba the real estate and business brokers act yes it made sense yeah because it was developed by realtors who knew what they were talking about it was simple to understand and it made sense trust eyes complicated we have a system that is so complicated that actually a lot of the older agents are leaving because they just they can't cope with something as complicated as this again developed by as Tom said non-realtors so that's what you get well let's take the opportunity to remember that if you are a consumer looking to buy or sell real estate you should hire a professional because it is incredibly complicated.

Christan:

Absolutely very complicated. So um Tom what's one thing you wish that more consumers understood about real estate or is there like a misconception misperception that is often encountered that you'd love to correct?

Tom Bosley:

One of the things that I have always tried to get done and can't seem to do it is the numbers that are provided by the press. I can't tell you how many times I've heard this every time are not accurate numbers to any of the the public at all because the the Toronto Real Estate Board when they come up with these numbers the public don't realize that when they're talking about average prices and median prices the Toronto board reports from Oakville to Barrie to Oshawa which has nothing to do with the Leaside market or the Lawrence Park market or the Rosedale market or the Oakville market. So the numbers I mean even today today's I think it was the star I was looking at this morning there's an article there that the sales are down from what they were a year ago or the the dollar value is down I think it's at 2% but the units were up 2.5% from a year ago. Now hello yeah there's the the the market we're in today is not nearly as as dormant as everybody likes to say it is and the numbers that are coming out of the real estate board are not accurate.

Christan:

And so just to further that point um they actually include Collingwood numbers now. Yeah collingwood wealth like I'm talking about the whole so those totally affect the numbers yes however I was never able to achieve it so it's okay we'll continue hearing about it for years to come. Okay and how has the role of real estate agent evolved in your tenure in the business?

Ann Bosley:

Oh it's gone from a part-time job to a full-time profession that's that's exactly how it's evolved um and it's it's things that kids coming out of university they want to be a realtor that never used to happen before um but I think our business is still gravely misunderstood. If you do your job well really well it seems like you haven't done much at all because a realtor's job as we teach in in Bosley U is like an iceberg so one fifth of it is what the public sees the showing the houses and the working on the offer etc four fifths of it is all underwater everything you do getting it ready calling your clients calling your your staging people your lawyers everybody it's all behind the scenes but if your systems work well your your customer your client thinks it was a piece of cake and boy I'm gonna be a real estate agent because boy that was easy I could just go out and buy my own house and it's not like that at all. No so that's still a big misconception.

Christan:

Yeah there's no question about that we hear that all the time and one of the things that I tell our realtors all the time is stop negotiating over the phone. Get in front of your client and negotiate with the other agent in front of your client because even that our clients aren't seeing anymore right with DocuSign and everything being done remotely. So we have a very heavy push here as you know about being in person and still doing offers at an offer table. And while that may be deemed quite traditional I'm of the opinion that 80% of communication is nonverbal. So you better be in the room with someone if you want to have a successful negotiation. Yeah. So I think that's how being a real estate agent has changed. Certainly since COVID the use of technology for just sheer laziness in my opinion is quite rampant.

Tom Bosley:

Well look at all of the major companies that are now insisting that people come back to the office. It just makes a huge difference. And we've always been lucky that our people do come into the office.

Christan:

Well we were the first company after COVID to open the doors right we were like we opened and closed them every time we needed to uh but we were the first company and many of our competitors commented for years about how fortunate we were to have people in the office. So very very lucky in that regard. I would say also just in terms of changes in real estate because I stopped selling in 2020 so about five years ago. And even in that fairly short period of time the requirements put on realtors from when I sold full time to now is so substantially different. You have the advent of Tresa you have all the new technology through Treb you have all the new eSign you have all the new FinTrack requirements 22 hours of continuing education. 22 hours of continuing education but then you also have a market and I haven't sold for five years but we have not had any sort of stable market in the last five years whatsoever. So you add on I need to be a therapist I need to manage expectations I need to get people off the ledge and get them moving in the right direction I need to help them you know interpret all the data right it's it the job is all encompassing now.

Ann Bosley:

Then you ask why we were retired.

Tom Bosley:

Well and the paperwork today is absurd. Yes it is true what you have to put together to put to make a deal is I mean people don't even read it there's just too much to read.

Christan:

Yeah so um not long ago I did a private off market deal for my parents um because I am still licensed. And uh I figured that I should do the deal to remind myself of what our agents go through. And this was what two years ago maybe it was awful. It was frightening how much paperwork needed to be done. And not only that negotiating with the agent on the other side you know I think we go back to Tom and Ann's comments about Bosley U and how we're so fortunate that our agents are as well trained as they are and have the support that they have because it's highly unusual in our industry to find that. And so when you're an experienced professional trying to negotiate with an agent on the other side who hasn't necessarily had the benefit of that training it's so challenging. What an eye-opening experience and boy did I create I developed even like so much empathy for our agents yeah but even uh your weekly sales meetings are very educational as well and very few companies hold sales meetings. Yeah it's true loads of fun yeah we have some fun we're not corporate that's for sure yeah um so in what industry changes have surprised you the most and what do you see coming next because even though you're retired let's not pretend that we don't sit around a cocktail hour talking about what the state of the industry is looking like these days.

Ann Bosley:

I I hope that I see a return to the office of the realtors. Yeah I really do hope that um you know the new agents would come in and they'd say well what do I have to do to be one of those guys and I would say look around you what's what's the commonality between them all the top ten and almost in every instance they worked in the office during the day and that exchange of information with each other made them a lot of money. Oh absolutely and I think our agents get that and we try to make our environment fun and interesting not just a bunch of cubicles where people are hiding away our private offices all open into larger spaces with more people they're not hidden down a hallway. So that I think that makes a big big difference as far as communication in a firm but what do I see coming down the the line I hope that I see that our business is more simplified. Because as you say it's it's just mind boggling the amount of paperwork and rules and things that you have to abide by at this point in time.

Tom Bosley:

It used to be fun back in the 70s we'd just write offers on the hood of a car.

Ann Bosley:

It was super fun and I and and I I hope that people are going to stop decorating each listing the same. Yes I'm so sick of gray and white you know the days I sold it was fun. You'd go through houses and you'd see wonderful art and you'd come back to the office and you'd say oh you've got to go to that one on Glen Road you can't believe the paintings in that house gorgeous. But that's what would make you remember the house and oh yeah I've got a client for that now everything is a blank canvas.

Christan:

Whitewashed yes whitewashed white walls beige walls so they can picture themselves there.

Tom Bosley:

And if they're not doing it full time they will not be successful. No they'll never be it's not all of our agents are full time not a part-time job.

Christan:

Tom what do you see coming next for the industry?

Tom Bosley:

Well I I agree with Ann I I think uh I would love to see and I've I've I've tried to get Rico to do this I would like to see RICO rather than just having 24 hours of education every two years I'd like to see an example of some work like they've sold two or three or four units during the time they've been registered to be deal minimum to maintain their registration.

Christan:

Deal minimums you talk about how complicated the business is these days. Yeah let's not talk about the percentage of agents that do less than one deal a year. So yes it's about 60% I'm pretty sure I decided let's not talk about yes okay um I just want to go on record saying that I didn't create these questions and I feel like this is kind of a setup but since I have been told I have to ask them I will here's the last one what makes you most proud when you look at the future of Bosley real estate and what does the legacy mean to you oh you're looking at me first.

Ann Bosley:

Well he's gonna cry okay um I like it I like it when people don't know my last name and I know you like it too. Yes and then well you know where do you work well I work for Bosley oh that's a great firm I that's my most favorite thing to have happen when they don't and I mean that's really cool. And now this is going to make dad cry. Right now instead of I mean because our friends all know us obviously that's why they're our friends what makes me most proud is they say they see you all the time. They watch your podcasts they watch your market um sayings and how terrific you are and how well you're doing well that's very nice.

Christan:

Thank you. We were at dinner the other night and uh my mom told me a story about this experience recently that made her feel I think quote old as dirt was the word and it was one of their family friends up in Collingwood which is a region that we operate in who ran into one of our agents in Thornbury and he said something to the effect of oh you work for Kristen instead of Tom and Ann It was an eye-opening moment for you I think that's the way it should be the eye opening moment was in the bar at the top of the park Hyatt Oh complete and utter strangers at the next table looked at us and said are you Kristen Bosley's parents?

Ann Bosley:

I thought oh that's what it's come to now stepping back the perils of stepping back.

Christan:

Well um I've had to get accustomed to this new thing called showing my face on things like the podcast and online when I was raised by two people who didn't believe in showing their face or sharing their last name or telling anybody who they were ever so I find that I really uh straddle that in my personal and professional careers because I'm on video all the time and then you know I go and meet a random group of people at a concert this weekend and it took probably three hours for them to get out that I worked at Bosley Real Estate and oh I was Kristen Bosley. So I really straddle that.

Tom Bosley:

You don't look old enough to run the company.

Christan:

Oh my God the best compliment um okay well listen thank you so much for joining us today um I did tell you that Tom was going to cry so I hope we captured that and the emotional one in the family.

Ann Bosley:

The agents take bets of how long it's gonna take for Tom to cry.

Tom Bosley:

It's called being proud thank you.

Christan:

Okay so we have a couple of closing questions if you don't mind these are my particular favorite questions and uh I would like to think that I know the answers to these but I actually don't so we'll do rapid fire and what's one lesson you've learned that you wish you knew earlier in your career oh it's the and you've heard dad say this you have two ears and one mouth is that where I got that from on 15 questions like Kelly's like what was the lesson you learned I was like yeah another way of putting it is I never learned anything with my mouth open. Yes I can't tell you how many times Tom has said that to me um what book is on your current reading list oh um I'm a big Taylor Jenkins read fan.

Ann Bosley:

Okay so I just finished her book Atmosphere about interestingly enough the first two women astronauts sounds boring it's not it's a fabulous book okay so that's a really good book.

Christan:

All right so atmosphere two more questions if you were to do a TED talk what would the topic be probably pros and cons of family business heavy okay love that lots of lots of material in lots of material in it yeah okay uh what's the number one thing that brings you joy well it was golf that's a misconception when you retire you think you're gonna play better no okay no so yeah it would bring me joy my grandsons I have four of them that's the number one thing hey that's a good question yeah good answer okay four of them and she'll never forgive me for not having a girl no girls family business there you go okay Tom rapid fire questions what's one lesson you've learned that you wish you knew earlier in your career I don't know because I learned everything starting when when I was 20 so uh I don't really have an answer for that question.

Tom Bosley:

Okay we can come back to it we're gonna we're gonna come back to this next one too look what book is on your current reading list I think uh I think the books you know I I in 35 years of organized real estate I used to do so much reading that I didn't read books at all uh but two of the best books that I have written or have read um are by Jack Welch who used to be the chairman of General Electric and they are both excellent one is called winning and I forget what the other one's called but from a business perspective they were terrific.

Christan:

I thought for sure you were gonna say back Emin 101 yeah I don't need to read that I just play it Tom is a massive back Emin player. If you did a TED talk what would it be?

Tom Bosley:

Probably how to go into the real estate business and be successful there's a formula for it you did it.

Christan:

Yeah um can I just add that he's actually already done that TED talk and it can be shown as you take your courses through Humber College it was effective. It was effective and what brings you joy in your day people we all have that in common yep okay well thank you so much for joining us today that was a wonderful conversation.

Tom Bosley:

Thank you for having us.

Christan:

I hope we gave people a few insights into the unique dynamic of our family.

Tom Bosley:

And uh well and if anybody wants to know what the real estate business is like phone you phone me or phone Ann Don't phone Tom and Ann they won't call you back what they'll do is forward it to me.

Christan:

So that's true. Thank you so much for coming I do know that you really resisted so I appreciate you being here. But in addition it's clear to say that both of you have been instrumental in shaping Bosley's history and for that I am truly grateful. And I am equally as grateful for how you brought me up in an environment and set me up for success to be here. So thank you. Until next time I'm Kristen Bosley Spin Like a Boz. Take care thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's episode be sure to subscribe leave a review and share it with someone who might find it valuable. We've got more conversations coming your way with incredible guests across design, finance, wellness tech, and more all through the lens of real estate. A special thank you to our set design sponsors, StayTrack

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Christan Bosley

Host
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Ann Bosley

Guest
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Tom Bosley

Guest